| 1970's American Heavy Metal... |    |
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SAHB Healer
Metal is in my blood
Age : 49
Joined : 05 Feb 2007
Posts : 1493
|  Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal...  Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:52 am | |
| | Trial by Fire wrote: | | As stated a few times already, I think that the term Heavy Metal has just been redefined and some of those said bands just don't fit the new bill. Some may say that you can't go back and redefine history, but that is not what's happening. Metal has changed and the term holds a different meaning and guidelines than before and now the bands that no longer fall into the category of Metal have been reorganised. Not too many years ago, woman and non whites were considered not to be human beings, but as I hope everyone is all aware is that they are now. Saying that you can't redefine history and change how we sort these bands follows the logic of saying that women and non-whites before a certain time period shouldn't be called people because they were labelled as non humans at the time. |
That's a valid point, but those who make it have to consider that the sword cuts both ways. There was a similar argument on Trog's board recently, and Trog made a comment that by this logic it's quite possible that what will be ultimatly remembered by history as "heavy metal" has not been invented yet; and that it may be reasonable to suggest that heavy metal very possibly does not yet exist as of 2008. It's funny, but think about it. It may very well turn out to be true!
I think we really have to keep taking context into account. Failing to keep contextual perspective leads to situations such as saying Abe Lincoln was no friend of blacks because he privately held culture bound derogetory opinions of them. Or saying Einstein wasn't much of a scientist because he couldn't grasp quantum mechanics as well as Heisenberg. |
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EvyMetal
Metal is in my blood
Age : 18
Joined : 19 Sep 2007
Posts : 1641
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:57 am | |
| I've got it! Let's base all of our knowledge on Wikipedia.org! Everyone knows it tells the truth 100% of the time!
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand? |
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Metal Misfit
Heart of Metal
Age : 26
Joined : 24 Jan 2007
Posts : 741
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:53 am | |
| | Fat Freddy wrote: |
Can't we just say "One man's hard rock is another man's heavy metal" and leave it at that?? |
Agreed. It's hard to argue subgenres, I think. It's more open to opinion. And I think the era you grew up in will also affect your opinion. Sure, those bands from the 70s were very heavy for the time, but as time goes on, new bands get heavier and the past looks "lighter".
Let's just call it all "rock" and be happy. 
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ultmetal
Administrator
Joined : 04 Jan 2007
Posts : 6852
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:13 am | |
| | Metal Misfit wrote: | | Let's just call it all "rock" and be happy. |
How would that be any fun? 
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EvyMetal
Metal is in my blood
Age : 18
Joined : 19 Sep 2007
Posts : 1641
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:17 pm | |
| | Metal Misfit wrote: |
Let's just call it all "rock" and be happy. |
No, because Heart Of Rock just doesn't sound cool.
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand? |
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DeathCult
Metal is in my blood
Age : 34
Joined : 18 Dec 2007
Posts : 2166
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:21 pm | |
| [quote="Metal Misfit"]| Fat Freddy wrote: |
Let's just call it all "rock" and be happy. |
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troublezone
Metal is in my blood
Age : 32
Joined : 28 Jan 2007
Posts : 1968
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:50 pm | |
| | It's in the eye of the beholder. I consider VH Heavy rock personally but i also see where ult is coming from. His generation considered bands like VH and Twisted Sister heavy metal and i think they were image wise but in hindsight now they were more rock than metal but i think they could be considered metal because they had the right components of metal like image and guitar solos. Standards have changed since the 70's because of refined production and skill in the metal field. At the time VH and Twisted Sister were indeed Metal. They were the metal of their day! |
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DeathCult
Metal is in my blood
Age : 34
Joined : 18 Dec 2007
Posts : 2166
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:55 pm | |
| | troublezone wrote: | | It's in the eye of the beholder. I consider VH Heavy rock personally but i also see where ult is coming from. His generation considered bands like VH and Twisted Sister heavy metal and i think they were image wise but in hindsight now they were more rock than metal but i think they could be considered metal because they had the right components of metal like image and guitar solos. Standards have changed since the 70's because of refined production and skill in the metal field. At the time VH and Twisted Sister were indeed Metal. They were the metal of their day! |
You don't consider Twisted Sister metal?  |
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troublezone
Metal is in my blood
Age : 32
Joined : 28 Jan 2007
Posts : 1968
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:57 pm | |
| | I have listened to Sabbath's first album many, many times and to me it sounds like dark blues rock but their next album (Paranoid) is definately what i consider the first real metal record. It was released the same year as its predecessor but to me it's where the true sound of metal began. |
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troublezone
Metal is in my blood
Age : 32
Joined : 28 Jan 2007
Posts : 1968
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:01 pm | |
| | DeathCult wrote: | | troublezone wrote: | | It's in the eye of the beholder. I consider VH Heavy rock personally but i also see where ult is coming from. His generation considered bands like VH and Twisted Sister heavy metal and i think they were image wise but in hindsight now they were more rock than metal but i think they could be considered metal because they had the right components of metal like image and guitar solos. Standards have changed since the 70's because of refined production and skill in the metal field. At the time VH and Twisted Sister were indeed Metal. They were the metal of their day! |
You don't consider Twisted Sister metal? |
Read the last part of my post. I feel at the time they were metal for their day but now i consider them heavy rock. I don't care if anyone calls them metal though because it's a fine line anyways! |
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James B.
Metal master
Age : 43
Joined : 09 Feb 2008
Posts : 412
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:17 pm | |
| Too some folks...if it isn't fast and growly...it isn't metal.
do an experiment....play the music of "Detroit Rock City"....take out the harmony lead and add a tuned down lil bass riff and have the cookie monster sing it instead of Paul and alot of folks will go "wow...kewl metal tune"
The real issue as I see it isn't really who or what or where, but when. |
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xyz
Heart of Metal
Age : 19
Joined : 27 Jan 2008
Posts : 557
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:00 am | |
| | troublezone wrote: | | At the time VH and Twisted Sister were indeed Metal. They were the metal of their day! |
What if in 20 years today's metal isn't considered metal? I know it probably will never happen. But IF it does happen, what do we say then?
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troublezone
Metal is in my blood
Age : 32
Joined : 28 Jan 2007
Posts : 1968
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:53 am | |
| | xyz wrote: | | troublezone wrote: | | At the time VH and Twisted Sister were indeed Metal. They were the metal of their day! |
What if in 20 years today's metal isn't considered metal? I know it probably will never happen. But IF it does happen, what do we say then? |
I don't think that will happen simply because everything's already been done sonically. I don't think anything can get heavier than what has already been done so how can bands 20 years from now be more metal? When VH and Twisted came out metal was just still developing so to speak. |
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troublezone
Metal is in my blood
Age : 32
Joined : 28 Jan 2007
Posts : 1968
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:59 am | |
| | For some reason people have become bored with traditional metal so they throw in some rap here and industrial there to try and spice it up but those fads fade and real metal lasts forever. 20 years from now Sabbath will still be heard on whatever music player device they invent at that time. |
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troublezone
Metal is in my blood
Age : 32
Joined : 28 Jan 2007
Posts : 1968
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:02 am | |
| | Doom metal band Pentagram formed in 1972 Virginia, USA.
a Doom Metal band from Woodbridge, VA, USA 
Last Update: July 30, 2006
A hallowed name in the field of Sabbath-inspired doom metal, Pentagram's history dates as far back as 1972, when their first single was released. Though their first official release didn't appear until 1985, an earlier lineup recorded some impressive works in the early to mid seventies, and have recently seen the light of day in the form of two compilations, these being '98's Human Hurricane and then 2001's First Daze Here release, which really showcases these early tracks at their best. The foundation of Pentagram has always been vocalist Bobby Liebling, who rivals Wino Weinrich (Spirit Caravan) for most revered doom metal personality, thanks to his tailor-made-for-doom voice. One has to wonder how much longer Liebling can keep going (after all, he's been the core of Pentagram for over thirty years, a remarkable achievement in itself), but as of this time there is no sign of them giving up. Moreover, the recent releases such as Sub-Basement compare quite favorably with the older material -- really, Pentagram has yet to release a sub-par album. |
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kmorg
Administrator
Age : 33
Joined : 02 Jan 2007
Posts : 4424
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:53 am | |
| | rattpoison wrote: |
The 80's was a sea of mediocrity, they only took the heavy metal aspect of bands like Thin Lizzy, Aerosmith etc. and narrowed it down much like todays heavy metal bands who not only aim to be exclusively heavy metal bands but aim to fit in small narrow genres of heavy metal.
It took til the early 90's for the spirit of the 70's to come back, and that's why the 70's and early 90's are they greatest eras in heavy metal. |
I think I'll revoke you metal lisence for this!!!!
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kmorg
Administrator
Age : 33
Joined : 02 Jan 2007
Posts : 4424
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:59 am | |
| | troublezone wrote: | | xyz wrote: | | troublezone wrote: | | At the time VH and Twisted Sister were indeed Metal. They were the metal of their day! |
What if in 20 years today's metal isn't considered metal? I know it probably will never happen. But IF it does happen, what do we say then? |
I don't think that will happen simply because everything's already been done sonically. I don't think anything can get heavier than what has already been done so how can bands 20 years from now be more metal? When VH and Twisted came out metal was just still developing so to speak. |
But that is exactly what is happening, and that is the reason why Scott made this thread. People called those bands heavy metal in the 70's, and that makes them heavy metal today also, regardless of how the new generations label them. 15 years ago I don't think very many people wpuld call Twisted sister anything but havy metal, but today we see it differently. And this is all ridiculous to me. We've even seen people debate whether or not WASP is a metal band. Again, that would not have happened 15 to 20 years ago. So in 15 more years people will remember Metallica as a rock band, and not the thrash metal monster they started out as, or even the metal band they evolved into. It's already happening. And thanks to all the Gothenburg band, death metal is the new metal, and not the Death Metal they all were influenced from, and most of the bands started out as.
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'Me and my magic men, kinda feelin' fine' - "The Wizard" - Uriah Heep |
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ultmetal
Administrator
Joined : 04 Jan 2007
Posts : 6852
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:18 am | |
| When I have 20-somethings emailing me that Saxon and Judas Priest
are "just hard rock", then something is wrong. Judas Priest defined the
freakin' genre.
Here is what I recently posted at another board regarding this:
What do you do with the many, many books on the history of heavy
metal that directly oppose what some of you say about the 70's American heavy
metal bands? I've recently read a few books on the history of metal and
non of them deny that bands like Van Halen were the forerunners of the
movement at the time. Books like the Heavy Metal Collector's Guide by
Martin Popoff lists bands like Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Mahogany Rush,
Angel, Led Zeppelin, UFO, etc. How about all the printed publications from the time
period? Do they lie? Circus, Grooves and Hit Parader constantly had the
likes of Zeppelin and Kiss adorning the covers of their Best of Heavy
Metal publications. Grooves said of Aerosmith in 1978, "And the sledgehammer
that powers the American Heavy Metal Machine is undeniably Aerosmith."
I'm not sure how you see this as a "matter of opinion". It's not! You
are just wrong. History proves it so. You're personal experience
does not change the fact that metal as a genre was born in the 1970's
with two distinct movements. One in Europe and one in the U.S.
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James B.
Metal master
Age : 43
Joined : 09 Feb 2008
Posts : 412
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:51 pm | |
| | That is the problem Scott, nowadays everythig has to be labeled and filed into it;s certain lil fille. If you were not alive in the 70's, much les listening to music then. Any opinion you have is missing what really counts. Real life experience. The music then was compared to what else was being put out. Not what has been put out since. Get a clue, kiddies. |
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TheGooch
Metal is in my blood
Age : 19
Joined : 16 May 2007
Posts : 3009
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:12 am | |
| as far as i am concerned if it was heavy metal back then thenit is still heavy metal today!
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ultmetal
Administrator
Joined : 04 Jan 2007
Posts : 6852
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:44 am | |
| | James B. wrote: | | That is the problem Scott, nowadays everythig has to be labeled and filed into it;s certain lil fille. If you were not alive in the 70's, much les listening to music then. Any opinion you have is missing what really counts. Real life experience. The music then was compared to what else was being put out. Not what has been put out since. Get a clue, kiddies. |
Funny this thread should be bumped back up. My wife went to see Chicago and the Doobie Brothers last week. It prompted her to purchase a "best of Chicago" CD. I'm sitting there listening to what she is calling 1970's rock and roll thinking, how can anyone NOT think that bands like Aerosmith and Ted Nugent were "heavy metal" in contrast.
Also, I received a promo vinyl copy of "Double Live Gonzo" not long ago. The sticker on the front of it announced, ""The madman's band is the greatest gonzoid heavy metal outfit to be found anywhere-
but anywhere-on the whole of our beleaguered planet!" -Sounds, 1978
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James B.
Metal master
Age : 43
Joined : 09 Feb 2008
Posts : 412
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:05 am | |
| | ultmetal wrote: | | James B. wrote: | | That is the problem Scott, nowadays everythig has to be labeled and filed into it;s certain lil fille. If you were not alive in the 70's, much les listening to music then. Any opinion you have is missing what really counts. Real life experience. The music then was compared to what else was being put out. Not what has been put out since. Get a clue, kiddies. |
Funny this thread should be bumped back up. My wife went to see Chicago and the Doobie Brothers last week. It prompted her to purchase a "best of Chicago" CD. I'm sitting there listening to what she is calling 1970's rock and roll thinking, how can anyone NOT think that bands like Aerosmith and Ted Nugent were "heavy metal" in contrast.
Also, I received a promo vinyl copy of "Double Live Gonzo" not long ago. The sticker on the front of it announced, ""The madman's band is the greatest gonzoid heavy metal outfit to be found anywhere-
but anywhere-on the whole of our beleaguered planet!" -Sounds, 1978 |
I like The Doobies and alot of older Chicago, hope she had a good time bro.
If Death Metal bands began playing in the late 70's they would of been considered punk rock, go figure |
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rattpoison
Metal is in my blood
Age : 21
Joined : 23 May 2007
Posts : 1590
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:27 am | |
| Am i alone in thinking original punk (the heavy stuff) was heavy metal. Bands like the Sex Pistols, Dead Boys, The Damned etc?
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EvyMetal
Metal is in my blood
Age : 18
Joined : 19 Sep 2007
Posts : 1641
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:15 am | |
| yes
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand? |
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Guest
Guest
| | Subject: Re: 1970's American Heavy Metal... Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:59 am | |
| I always thought the early punk stuff was to be anti-hard rock (or metal, if you will).
Last edited by spectrefate on Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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