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| | Heavy Metal of the 1970s... |  |
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ultmetal
Administrator
Number of posts: 16191
Age: 45
Registration date: 2007-01-04
| | | | | manny
mini boss
Number of posts: 13991
Age: 42
Registration date: 2008-08-05
|  Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:14 pm | |
| What I do not get about the argument is that we did not label Aerosmith, AC/DC, Alice Cooper, KISS, and Starz to name a few metal bands, it was the press, the labels, and the fans of that era, and they were labeled metal bands and nobody questioned, then like all things in life the music got heavier, moved away from its roots etc, and people felt it was ok to rewrite history and dismiss these bands as 'hard rock'. |
| | | | DeathCult
Master Of The Crotch Grab
Number of posts: 6510
Age: 38
Registration date: 2007-12-18
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:38 am | |
| | James B. wrote: | | ultmetal wrote: | Just went through and re-read most of this thread.
| Shawn Of Fire wrote: | | Quote: | | Heavy metal started on February 13, 1970 with the release of Black Sabbath |
And the term was coined by someone other than the band....to this day, Ozzy considers Black Sabbath "rock and roll" or "hard rock" (I've heard him say both)...I've also heard him say "I don't even know what Heavy Metal is..."
Point being: things evolve. Period. Aerosmith, Blue Oyster Cult, Ted Nugent, Van Halen...ALL got categorized as Heavy Metal by the same people who categorized Black Sabbath as Heavy Metal...the fans and the press. Only after decades of evolution and genre-splintering did people begin to get more specific and separatist and argue over what is and is not "Metal".
Fact STILL remains that, whether anyone here agrees or not, Heavy Metal in 1977 in America was made up of many bands that, by today's standards and guidelines, would be categorized as Hard Rock or Rock. In 1977, there was no Thrash Metal or Metalcore or Death Metal or Speed Metal or Prog Metal...there was Heavy Metal...KISS and Sabbath and Zep and Aerosmith and Queen and Motorhead. There is no way to redefine or change it.
It's like The Eagles being called Rock...by today's standards much of their music would be labeled Country or Americana...doesn't mean they are not a Rock band.
You can't relabel the past, especially historically documented past, by modern standards...things are what they are. |
Best post of the entire debate!  |
I concur....tried to elaborate on same ponits but I am only a drummer  |
X3
Even though I agree it is history, I still think of most of these bands as rock. |
| | | | thejokeriv
Metal is Forever
Number of posts: 9068
Age: 42
Registration date: 2007-01-23
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:29 pm | |
| | manny wrote: | | What I do not get about the argument is that we did not label Aerosmith, AC/DC, Alice Cooper, KISS, and Starz to name a few metal bands, it was the press, the labels, and the fans of that era, and they were labeled metal bands and nobody questioned, then like all things in life the music got heavier, moved away from its roots etc, and people felt it was ok to rewrite history and dismiss these bands as 'hard rock'. |
Plus, there is a reason it was called the new wave of British heavy metal!!!!!!!!! Anyone that says Metal wasn't around in the 70's need to explain that one - and they weren't just referring to Priest and Sabbath!!!!! |
| | | | mlotek
Metal master
Number of posts: 658
Age: 43
Registration date: 2010-01-01
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:46 pm | |
| great thread... I have to read every page now! |
| | | | DeathCult
Master Of The Crotch Grab
Number of posts: 6510
Age: 38
Registration date: 2007-12-18
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:38 am | |
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| | | | MoonChild
Metal is in my blood
Number of posts: 4184
Age: 39
Registration date: 2007-04-02
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:08 pm | |
| | exact33 wrote: | I dont remember much of the 70s - I was too young  |
Me too. |
| | | | manny
mini boss
Number of posts: 13991
Age: 42
Registration date: 2008-08-05
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:38 pm | |
| I think this interesting debate, as many pointed out bands such as Aerosmith, KISS, Alice Cooper, Led Zeppelin (yes they were also labeled metal) and even Deep Purple would be not labeled metal today if there debut albums were released in 2009, but then again if this bands had not existed, then metal would either be very different or may have not existed at all. |
| | | | ultmetal
Administrator
Number of posts: 16191
Age: 45
Registration date: 2007-01-04
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:30 pm | |
| | James B. wrote: | In 1977 you could not compare KISS to Slayer in regards of musical and/or lyrical content.
Slayer wasn't around, or anything similar to make anykind of debate over.
In 1977 standards. the application of defintion regarding the term, "heavy metal", Kiss and contemporaries apply to what was merited to that time.
In today's standards, you have many many bands to compare with as far as musical, "heaviness", "agression", "tempo" or lyrical "imagry" or "mood".
ToB is putting the cart before the horse. Ult's entire point is those bands were "metal" in the 70's but opposed to what transpired in the 30 something years since...well the size of the brush has not only broadened but diversiified in the colors one can paint.
For example, in 1980, I could tell somebody that I played in a metal band and they would pretty much know where I was coming from. In 2010, I could tell somebody that I play in a metal band and they would reply, "what kind of metal band ?" Point being, back then it didn't need to be explained, it was understood what the term meant or implied. Nowadays, it is so broken down and dissected that what it isn't seems to mean more than is. |
Excellent point!
_________________
ULTIMATUM - TOO METAL FOR WIKIPEDIA!
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| | | | wmcollis
Metal student
Number of posts: 107
Age: 43
Registration date: 2012-01-07
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:07 am | |
| | Wargod wrote: | | You know those mags basically only covered bands that were popular back in those days. But there were tons of underground bands that really never surfaced just like it was thru all the decades including today. wargod51 |
That's why they were called "underground"  . Magazines like Circus were fan rags and discovering bands wasn't a big priority. However; many of the writers/photographers were paid by the record companies to follow bands and get the scoop. I bought my fair share of the fan rags in my day. The whole 70's rock/metal thing was something I went back and found. My older brother and sisters also provided quite a education. I didn't really have much to do with music outside of the radio until the 80's and then it was on. Most of the stuff I listen to nowadays is from the 70's/80's and it's just because that's what I like. |
| | | | wmcollis
Metal student
Number of posts: 107
Age: 43
Registration date: 2012-01-07
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:19 am | |
| | Shawn Of Fire wrote: | | Quote: | | Heavy metal started on February 13, 1970 with the release of Black Sabbath |
And the term was coined by someone other than the band....to this day, Ozzy considers Black Sabbath "rock and roll" or "hard rock" (I've heard him say both)...I've also heard him say "I don't even know what Heavy Metal is..." |
Yup, I agree with Ozzy. I don't really know what Heavy Metal is, especially today. |
| | | | wmcollis
Metal student
Number of posts: 107
Age: 43
Registration date: 2012-01-07
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:21 am | |
| | ultmetal wrote: | | James B. wrote: | In 1977 you could not compare KISS to Slayer in regards of musical and/or lyrical content.
Slayer wasn't around, or anything similar to make anykind of debate over.
In 1977 standards. the application of defintion regarding the term, "heavy metal", Kiss and contemporaries apply to what was merited to that time.
In today's standards, you have many many bands to compare with as far as musical, "heaviness", "agression", "tempo" or lyrical "imagry" or "mood".
ToB is putting the cart before the horse. Ult's entire point is those bands were "metal" in the 70's but opposed to what transpired in the 30 something years since...well the size of the brush has not only broadened but diversiified in the colors one can paint.
For example, in 1980, I could tell somebody that I played in a metal band and they would pretty much know where I was coming from. In 2010, I could tell somebody that I play in a metal band and they would reply, "what kind of metal band ?" Point being, back then it didn't need to be explained, it was understood what the term meant or implied. Nowadays, it is so broken down and dissected that what it isn't seems to mean more than is. |
Excellent point! |
Excellent point and well written. |
| | | | wmcollis
Metal student
Number of posts: 107
Age: 43
Registration date: 2012-01-07
| | Subject: Re: Heavy Metal of the 1970s... Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:39 am | |
| | ultmetal wrote: |
The history revisionism that goes on today by younger heavy metal fans really irritates me. They should respect the roots of the genre, and not try to dismiss it because they don't consider it heavy enough. |
Each generation has to "own" the music and creating new names for it is just their way of saying it's mine. Some of that went on in the 80's and I'm sure it did in the 90's and continues on today. I remember when I first heard the term thrash describing a band I had been listening to for awhile (anybody remember Anthrax). I never liked it cause I thought they were making fun of the music Thrash:trash, but then everyone started using it so what do I know. |
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