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SpectreFate
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:46 pm

Freddy, in the book does is there any info as to how Ty Longley died? I know he was on stage right and the fire started on stage left. I just wonder how he couldn't escape.....
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:49 pm

SpectreFate wrote:
Freddy, in the book does is there any info as to how Ty Longley died? I know he was on stage right and the fire started on stage left. I just wonder how he couldn't escape.....

If memory serves, rather than run out thru the backstage door with the rest of the band, he went into the crowd first to find a friend who was in the audience and he was overcome by smoke.

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Last edited by Fat Freddy on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:51 pm

Fat Freddy wrote:
SpectreFate wrote:
Freddy, in the book does is there any info as to how Ty Longley died? I know he was on stage right and the fire started on stage left. I just wonder how he couldn't escape.....

If memory serves, rather than run out thru the backstage door with the rest of the band, he ran into the crowd to find a friend who was in the audience and he was overcome by smoke.

E-gad. That's horrible. That footage is more than disturbing.
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:57 pm

SpectreFate wrote:

E-gad. That's horrible. That footage is more than disturbing.

Yeah, it's pretty harsh stuff.

Supposedly once the flames hit the foam on the ceiling, the whole room filled with thick black smoke and the fire sucked up most of the remaining oxygen, so if your ass wasn't out of there within the first 90 seconds you weren't getting out.

The building also had few fire extinguishers and no sprinkler system (even though sprinklers were required by R.I. law at this time, the Station was "grandfathered" because it was built in the 1940s before they became mandatory).

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:39 pm

After reading the book I went back to look at some of the articles from the time. About a year after the fire the Foundation took a lot of grief because they accepted a 50,000 donation from Great White who had done a fundraising tour. Also a lot of the hostility toward Russell stemmed from the fact they left town quickly and he portrayed himself as also being one of the victims. I'm sure the face-lift didn't help matters either. The band's manager ended up getting a lot more sympathy because he went against his lawyer's advice and plead guilty. To be honest after watching the video myself (could only make it up to when the fire began) I have to say it is unreal that ANYONE thought lighting off pyro was in any way safe. The crowd and that low ceiling should have stopped that idea immediately (especially considering so many other stops on the tour had forbid them from it). It truly was a perfect storm of greed, corruption, and stupidity that caused this.

The more I've read of this the more I feel the fire authorities are the true culprits. They could have followed the laws and regulations (and not in the case of the capacity of the club increase the numbers allowed). That was their job - to insure public safety. And they just didn't. At all. At the end I sort of feel the buck should've stopped with them.

And as much as I recommend the book (and have no problems with victims families getting big settlements) I do think the author (who was one of the lawyers) stretched things by including companies like the one whose product was retrieved from a dumpster by a previous Station owner and whose product was never intended for that use being brought into the matter. Seemed to me the deep pockets got hit hard while the guilty parties skated by. Hell the club owners rearranged their finances to avoid paying out and then later tried to hire themselves out as safety speakers. Keep in mind while people were burning alive in his club the one brother was more concerned with stashing the cash box in the snow.

Much like with Longely, it was scary how quick the place went up and how a lot of people just didn't realize the serious danger they were in. People going back in for coats/purses, taking pictures, or they simply just froze up. For myself I'll now always be making notes of exits in any crowded place.

Just an awful happening and one that could've easily been prevented.
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:27 pm

The exit signs weren't lit, either, right? Or was the other exit blocked?

And let's not forget that the owners of the club filled it well over capacity.

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Fat Freddy
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:33 pm

Eyesore wrote:
The exit signs weren't lit, either, right? Or was the other exit blocked?

And let's not forget that the owners of the club filled it well over capacity.

Yep, and one of the club's bouncers prevented people from escaping thru the door next to the stage, telling them that it was "for band only" and directing them all to the front door (where it had already become bottlenecked)... till one guy finally knocked the bouncer on his ass and walked right over him with his wife and kid in tow.

...I hope they gave that guy a medal.

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:51 pm

Did the bouncer make it?

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:03 pm

Eyesore wrote:
Did the bouncer make it?

Yeah, he did. In the book it sez the wife of the guy who pushed him out of the way saw him again years later at a memorial service for the victims...all she could say was "Oh, it's... it's YOU!" and then she fainted. Guess there was a little post-traumatic stress syndrome goin' on there.

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- Jeff LaBar, CINDERELLA

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jstate
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:10 pm

The bouncer thing confuses me since the people were trying to leave - not sneak in which seemed the whole reason for the band only door in the first place. There are very hearty discussions on Station Fire message boards about the main bouncer King's actions. Did he stop people from leaving or was he the one throwing people through the windows to safety? The book made it seem that the local hanging-out guy they recruited to bounce that night was the main person stopping folks at the band door. Also the fire was right at the band door so the natural inclination might be to flee from the actual flames of the fire toward the front.

The claim was always that the power cut off but in actuality the place just filled with black smoke in seconds. Another problem was the front windows were mostly unbreakable plexiglass (yet another thing that slipped by the fire inspector).

Quote :
And let's not forget that the owners of the club filled it well over capacity.

The fire marshall came up with some real creative ways to let them jam over 400 people into this building. Most of which involved moving things in front of potential exits.

Quote :
Did the bouncer make it?

There were two different bouncers that have been mentioned as blocking the band door. One was named King and he is the big bald guy in the video of the fire. The other was some local dude who hung out there that they just put to use when needed. He is the guy in the photo with the cig dangling from his mouth when the fire starts. Everybody has testified that he blocked the door. King, who died in the fire, is where there is a lot of debate on his actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:42 pm

Fat Freddy wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
Did the bouncer make it?

Yeah, he did. In the book it sez the wife of the guy who pushed him out of the way saw him again years later at a memorial service for the victims...all she could say was "Oh, it's... it's YOU!" and then she fainted. Guess there was a little post-traumatic stress syndrome goin' on there.
Stress that they'd essentially killed him while saving their own lives? I can understand that.

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:05 pm

Former Great White singer Jack Russell has been told the Station Fire Memorial Foundation don’t want any money from his upcoming charity show.

And the organisation have all but said he’s only doing it for publicity.

Russell recently announced he’d play an acoustic benefit concert in California in February. He planned to send the proceeds to the foundation set up to commemorate the 100 people who died in the blaze during a Great White concert a decade ago, including guitarist Ty Longley.

Earlier this week he said: “I too lost many friends that night – but I can’t begin to equate that to the loss of a family member. For what it’s worth, you have been in my prayers and always will be.”

Later he revealed: “My manager received an email from the vice president of the Station Fire Memorial Foundation, stating that they will refuse any donations from me. The proceeds from the show will be donated to a different charitable organiaation, to be determined shortly.

“I am saddened by the response of the foundation and the motives behind it, but we will put on a great show and make it for a worthy cause.”

Now the foundation have lashed back against the second announcement. They say: “This event was not approved by, nor endorsed by the Station Fire Memorial Foundation. We require all third party fundraisers to be recognised and approved prior to advertising.

“The foundation felt that this event was not something we wished to be associated with. This is due to the resentment and animosity still felt by many of the families and survivors. We feel that the upset caused by his involvement would outweigh the amount of funds raised at this event

“Mr Russell’s manager, Ms Valerie Ince, responded that she would remove the name of the foundation from the event and another worthy charity would be chosen. We thanked her, and tried to have all traces of the event taken down from various music news websites before any damage could be done.

“Instead of graciously adhering to our heartfelt and polite request, Ms Ince then released an additional statement to the media.

“We stand behind our decision that our organization represents the feelings and the needs of the family members and survivors above the need for publicity or opportunity of one person.”
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:32 pm

Russell is doing it for publicity? He raised nearly $200,000 for these people in the past! The funny thing is, they need $1 million to build a memorial on the Station site. Why aren't the victims and the families of the victims stepping up? They sued the pants off of everyone! You'd think that between the lot of those greedy twats they'd be able to pony up a million.

Ah, but it was never about the victims, was it? It was always about money, and they're surely not going to part with their money to honor the victims.

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UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:54 pm

Well stated Eyesore.
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:39 pm

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:
Well stated Eyesore.

yep. It is sad people died that evening but at some point everyone has to move on.

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:49 am

I do feel for these families but their anger toward Jack Russell is completely misdirected IMHO. His culpability in this was just being the poor dude who didn't lack the smarts to not light off his pyro in this fire marshall-approved deathtrap. If it wasn't him, it would've been some other band. I just wonder where their outrage is at those fire inspectors who were never fired, charged, and retired comfortably off their tax monies. They not only turned a blind eye to what even non-fire professionals could see but also worked it so that place could jam as many unfortunate souls in as possible. The more I read about this the more I feel the "guilt" falls almost squarely upon them. If anyone truly had the ability to prevent this - it was them doing their jobs.

One of the points the book kept repeating was that RI is a very tight knit community. Six degrees or less of separation all around. Probably easier to blame the famous outsider than to point the finger from within.

It should also be noted that Russell did try to put the fire out with a water-bottle. Pointless as that was given the circumstances.
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:21 am

Yo! Jack is sounding real good. He was a little shaky when he first came back, good but not great. He sounds pretty great in all these clips. Not his best, obviously, but damn close.









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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:05 am

The band is hit n miss, thanks for posting

I think Great White needs Jack and Mark together for it to be Great White, but that is just me.

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:24 am

He's sounding better then he has for a long time.
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:26 am

James B. wrote:
The band is hit n miss, thanks for posting

I think Great White needs Jack and Mark together for it to be Great White, but that is just me.


Wise words. Take heed, infidels.
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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:43 am

SpectreFate wrote:
James B. wrote:
The band is hit n miss, thanks for posting

I think Great White needs Jack and Mark together for it to be Great White, but that is just me.


Wise words. Take heed, infidels.

I have always liked whatever Great White put out to some extent or another. My personal favorites being the "metallic" leanings on the E.P and S/T. Guess seeing them alot back then had something to do with it? When they kicked Gary Holland to the curb, my first take was cause of him only having the ability to play the same beat and not much of anything else Laughing very hard

When I participated in the audition process after his dismissal, it was evident as to why he was replaced. They were going someplace else musically. I didn't dig on "Shot In The Dark" at first, but later came to realize that it is more in tune to their actual musical forte than the earlier stuff. That being more evident with subsequent releases.

The whole story is sad. The revolving door of muicians makes a statement in itself. I can kick it and hope Mark and Jack someday do something together again. I'd dig it even if they went out as a duo doing acoustic sets.

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:44 pm

SpectreFate wrote:
James B. wrote:
The band is hit n miss, thanks for posting

I think Great White needs Jack and Mark together for it to be Great White, but that is just me.


Wise words. Take heed, infidels.

me too. I dont think they are better apart.

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:51 pm


AND


Anyone know the difference, if any ? I have the second one and know it is live. Is the first just songs taken from the second ? Or are they studio ?

thanks

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:24 pm

It's the same. The bottom is the original, so you're good.

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PostSubject: Re: Jack Russell returns with "Great White"... sorta   Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:40 am

Eyesore wrote:
It's the same. The bottom is the original, so you're good.

Thanks Ken, I figured so mainly due to the "professional" packaging Rolling Eyes found on the first.

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