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metalinmyveins
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:16 am

James B. wrote:
EmoElmo wrote:


And it's called DISCRETION folks, nobody has the right to tell you what's wrong from what's right



So law holds no merit to you, classic. We all have accountability for our actions, regardless of whatever we may personaly deem to be right or wrong.

So to you, nobody could tell you it was wrong to have sex with a minor as long as you were discreet about it. That may be an extreme example, but the same principal applies.


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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:32 pm

James B. wrote:
EmoElmo wrote:


And it's called DISCRETION folks, nobody has the right to tell you what's wrong from what's right



So law holds no merit to you, classic. We all have accountability for our actions, regardless of whatever we may personaly deem to be right or wrong.

So to you, nobody could tell you it was wrong to have sex with a minor as long as you were discreet about it. That may be an extreme example, but the same principal applies.

Where's a "like" button when you need it?

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brokentulsa
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:10 pm

The thing is there are still lots of illegal download sites in places like Russia and China and the US government won't be able to touch those.
I agree with the idea that this is all just the beginning. At what point is the government going to want to shut down this site because someone posted an album cover like the Scorpions Virgin Killer album.
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brokentulsa
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:15 pm

Quote :
So law holds no merit to you, classic.

Its obvious to me the law holds no merit to most people especially the governments of the world including the US government...
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:18 pm

The only reason Megaupload got nailed was because some of their servers were located in Virginia, that allowed the Feds to intercede.

If the servers had been in China they wouldn't have been able to to touch them.

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James B.
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:02 pm

brokentulsa wrote:
Quote :
So law holds no merit to you, classic.

Its obvious to me the law holds no merit to most people especially the governments of the world including the US government...


Most people are oblivious to the law unless it inconveniences them in some way. My point is towards that individual and not a government. I don't understand your perspective cause even though there are those that break the law, they expect to pay the consequences if they are caught. That gives them the context of what is right and what is wrong. If I understood your post correctly, most go about their business doing whatever they want to without any accountability and laws are mere suggestions.

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James B.
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:09 pm

brokentulsa wrote:
The thing is there are still lots of illegal download sites in places like Russia and China and the US government won't be able to touch those.
I agree with the idea that this is all just the beginning. At what point is the government going to want to shut down this site because someone posted an album cover like the Scorpions Virgin Killer album.


There is a big difference between constitutional rights and copyright infridgement.

I am not saying the government won't try to to do what you stated but we have due process of the law. The Constitution and the Supreme Court will hopefully prevail.

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static
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:20 pm

If someone stole food from a shop week in, week out for years until one day the shop hired security so they couldn't do it anymore, would you think it reasonable of them to complain about having to pay for food and say that they were being denied their right to eat? The recording industry operates terribly and most CDs and even digital downloads are ridiculously overpriced these days, but they're still products and their creators have as much right to demand that you pay for them as Pat the Baker has to demand that you pay for his loaf of bread.
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:11 pm

The whole "MUSIC SHOULD BE FREE" movement makes no sense whatsoever. I honestly think the current generation has no clue that recording and releasing an album actually costs money.

A good vocal mic costs thousands of dollars, same goes for mixers, outboard effects, editing software, soundproofing, cabling, studio construction, etc.

The engineer(s) must be paid, the studio time must be rented, the pressing plant doesn't make CDs for free, magazines actually charge money to advertise albums...

...and somehow that little bit of logic confuses people. Because people are generally dumber than dirt and now EVERYONE feels they are entitled to EVERYTHING...RIGHT F*CKING NOW!

Sorry gang, the world just doesn't work that way.
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brokentulsa
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:59 pm

Quote :
If I understood your post correctly, most go about their business doing whatever they want to without any accountability and laws are mere suggestions.

you might be surprised to see how many people live and think like this. I am not saying its right but it exist. I live in a college town and ALOT of the 30,000 students here definitely live like that. i have asked a few of them in our apartment complex to please keep the rules of the lease and they told me FU and the management that also. I worked a place where theft was rampant and the young guys told me to my face screw the law. A recent survey showed that over 50% of my city drives with no insurance. We got hit once in a 4 car accident and we were the only ones in the wreck who were insured and legal citizens of this country. I had the same situations in St. Louis Mo. when i lived there. And if you could get the cops to come out the judges slapped them on the wrist with a warning or a $20 fine....and that is why people think the way they do. AGAIN...I am not saying its right but it is all around us. I am not saying its alright to steal music or video from download sites but it happens and in a few months there will be new sites appear that allow it. Remember back in the 70s and 80s when radio stations played entire albums and even gave you time to cue up your cassette deck? Please do not think I agree its ok to steal but I am just stating the facts.
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mlotek
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:24 am

I am going to start taking photographs of art and keep the copies, because copying is stealing.
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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:30 am

The thing I will miss is the obscure albums and stuff that I often downloaded. I love downloading those cassette demos that were released in 1986 and limited to 50 copies. It'll suck not being able to find those types of things.

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Mglaffas81
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:33 am

S.D. wrote:
The whole "MUSIC SHOULD BE FREE" movement makes no sense whatsoever. I honestly think the current generation has no clue that recording and releasing an album actually costs money.

A good vocal mic costs thousands of dollars, same goes for mixers, outboard effects, editing software, soundproofing, cabling, studio construction, etc.

The engineer(s) must be paid, the studio time must be rented, the pressing plant doesn't make CDs for free, magazines actually charge money to advertise albums...

...and somehow that little bit of logic confuses people. Because people are generally dumber than dirt and now EVERYONE feels they are entitled to EVERYTHING...RIGHT F*CKING NOW!

Sorry gang, the world just doesn't work that way.


I couldn't agree more - the people who complain about stuff like this are truly idiots - or at least extremely ignorant.
Just because you can easily copy and distribute other people's music, doesn't make it okay! And who's the dumbass who said that it's all okay as long as you kept it discreet? Oh, so if I descreetly smuggle drugs and alcohol into a country, I guess that's okay - no one will find out anyway.


Last edited by Mglaffas81 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:45 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:38 am

mlotek wrote:
I am going to start taking photographs of art and keep the copies, because copying is stealing.




Oh yes, I can't wait until the day up and coming artists are put out of business 'cause people like you are taking pictures of their paintings and selling them to their fans.


BTW - copying your music is not stealing - you could burn as many cd's as you want with the music you've bought - but as soon as you start distributing them, you've broken the law - how is that so hard to understand?


Last edited by Mglaffas81 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mglaffas81
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:44 am


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thejokeriv
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:16 am

brokentulsa wrote:
Quote :
If I understood your post correctly, most go about their business doing whatever they want to without any accountability and laws are mere suggestions.

Remember back in the 70s and 80s when radio stations played entire albums and even gave you time to cue up your cassette deck? Please do not think I agree its ok to steal but I am just stating the facts.

Yes, but that is different - a lot of us did that back in that when some radio stations would play whole albums or concerts (King Biscuit anyone?) but a cassette copy of an album play on a radio station is an entirely different animal than downloading an album off the internet. The cassette copy was just that, a copy that you listened to. The vast majority of people (myself included!) that did that ended up buying the actual album because it sounded better and you got the cover, lyrics, etc. Illegally (yes, it is illegal) downloading is the exact same thing is going into a record store and shoplifting the album or cassette because the album you download is the exact same product you can buy in i-tunes or amazon.com. It's not a crappy 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc generation copy that has downgraded, it's the exact same quality recording you get from the online stores. Getting the exact same thing that cost money without paying for it is stealing.

The other thing is that back in the day, the cassette copies of albums, concerts, etc had the effect of increasing sales. Today, as SD mentioned, that have this sense of entitlement and think that music should be free. Guess what? The artist, producer and audio engineer (like SD) should get payed for their efforts! That is what they do for a living.





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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:27 am

Quote :
The artist, producer and audio engineer (like SD) should get payed for their efforts! That is what they do for a living.

In my experience, everyone on that list gets paid BUT the artist.

If the producer and audio engineer were not paid, there'd be no album to download in the first place.

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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:52 am

Eyesore wrote:
The thing I will miss is the obscure albums and stuff that I often downloaded. I love downloading those cassette demos that were released in 1986 and limited to 50 copies. It'll suck not being able to find those types of things.

THIS.........
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:07 pm

Shawn Of Fire wrote:
Quote :
The artist, producer and audio engineer (like SD) should get payed for their efforts! That is what they do for a living.

In my experience, everyone on that list gets paid BUT the artist.

If the producer and audio engineer were not paid, there'd be no album to download in the first place.

Everyone involved behind the scenes (producer, engineers, studio owners, etc.) gets paid upfront, except for the artist. They only get something in return if the albums sells. And even then, they're usually in debt to the record company for recording it in the first place.

It's a pretty f-ed up system how that works, but it's been in place so long within the music industry that noone is changing it.

And bands that are doing it on their own are realizing just how expensive it can be without the deep pockets of a record company to finance all the back end stuff. Then we complain that bands are asking for hand-outs to record or charge $20 for a cdr. It's an evil cycle.

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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:54 pm

Olafsto wrote:
James B. wrote:
EmoElmo wrote:


And it's called DISCRETION folks, nobody has the right to tell you what's wrong from what's right



So law holds no merit to you, classic. We all have accountability for our actions, regardless of whatever we may personaly deem to be right or wrong.

So to you, nobody could tell you it was wrong to have sex with a minor as long as you were discreet about it. That may be an extreme example, but the same principal applies.

Agreeing with James here.

yep. me too. And Ill agree with Olaf too Razz
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:57 pm

S.D. wrote:
The whole "MUSIC SHOULD BE FREE" movement makes no sense whatsoever. I honestly think the current generation has no clue that recording and releasing an album actually costs money.

A good vocal mic costs thousands of dollars, same goes for mixers, outboard effects, editing software, soundproofing, cabling, studio construction, etc.

The engineer(s) must be paid, the studio time must be rented, the pressing plant doesn't make CDs for free, magazines actually charge money to advertise albums...

...and somehow that little bit of logic confuses people. Because people are generally dumber than dirt and now EVERYONE feels they are entitled to EVERYTHING...RIGHT F*CKING NOW!

Sorry gang, the world just doesn't work that way.

well said. I wouldnt work if someone could come in and take the fruits my labor for free. I expect to be paid for my time and work produced.
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brokentulsa
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:47 pm

It seems to me the only way to truly fix this problem is go old school...No more downloads period. Make people buy the physical property..CDs or records. Even when I download legally from amazon or something I eventually want the CD and sometimes the record also...or if bands want to offer downloads let them put them on their own personal websites.
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:56 pm

brokentulsa wrote:
It seems to me the only way to truly fix this problem is go old school...No more downloads period. Make people buy the physical property..CDs or records. Even when I download legally from amazon or something I eventually want the CD and sometimes the record also...or if bands want to offer downloads let them put them on their own personal websites.

Not going to happen.

iPhones, iPods, iPads, mp3 enabled car stereos, etc. It's a portable world and CD's are clunky to carry around.

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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:03 pm

I am an attorney. I understand the law of copyright. I also think that the genie is out of the bottle and copyright is increasingly becoming irrelevant. Technically, what is going on is NOT theft, it is piracy and they are different. Theft removes the original item from it's original owner and places it in the hands of another. Piracy makes a perfect copy of the original and sells or distributes that.

Sadly, copyright holders are going to be out of luck because there is no going back. The government can shut down all the sites they want but more will pop up or new technology will be created to evade them. The music industry's fate was sealed the moment the first CD was pressed. You can never make a perfect analog copy but you can always make a perfect digital copy. I am not sure how to address this issue as the current law can't handle the technological change.

Please note, I am not advocating illegal downloading. I would be pissed if my creations were being pirated with no compensation.


Last edited by Witchfinder on Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mglaffas81
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PostSubject: Re: BitTorrent Giant BtJunkie Shuts down For Good   Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:07 pm

Witchfinder wrote:
I am an attorney. I understand the law of copyright. I also think that the genie is out of the bottle and copyright is increasingly becoming irrelevant. Technically, what is going on is NOT theft, it is piracy and they are different. Theft removes the original item from it's original owner and places it in the hands of another. Piracy makes a perfect copy of the original and sells or distributes that.

Sadly, copyright holders are going to be out of luck because there is no going back. The government can shut down all the sites they want but more will pop up or new technology will be freated to evade them will develop. The music industry's fate was sealed the moment the first CD was pressed. You can never make a perfect analog copy but you can always make a perfect digital copy. I am not sure how to address this issue as the current law can't handle the technological change.

Please note, I am not advocating illegal downloading. I would be pissed if my creations were being pirated with no compensation.

Yes, Witchfinder speaks the truth - Sadly, music will always be shared and enjoyed illegally, and people will see music as a given, instead of actually having to spend money on it - I'm not judging the act of actually downloading music, I'm judging the idiots that actually complain when their favourite sites are closed down - I don't care what people say, those people are complete idiots.
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