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jettafiend
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:32 pm

S.D. wrote:
Temple of Blood wrote:
Generally speaking, I'm not sure how some of these bands these days get called "prog".

WATCHTOWER is prog. Some stuff that I hear called such these days is just watered down Journey/Queensryche.

What characteristics define "prog" to most these days?

I agree with you completely, I think about 90% of the time the term "progressive" gets used incorrectly.

It seems if a band uses keyboards they automatically get labeled as "prog".

Bands like "Atheist" or "Meshuggah" are more progressive than many of the bands in this thread.


So how would you define "Prog-Metal" in general terms? I am not trying to start a genre war or create 96 more sub-genres but as working short definition that the average listener (me) can use. Honestly, If it sounds good, I like it, if not, well, I tend to not like it. For instance, I like early Dream Theater, up through "Awake" I can't stand Tool, Symphony-X is ok, and Fates Warning for me has been difficult to get in to. I like alot of the stuff that has been posted on here, but some has been just plain weird. I think Prog-rock/metal is like Jazz, blues and pretty much every other form of music - You get it or you don't.
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Shawn Of Fire
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:42 pm

S.D. wrote:

Bands like "Atheist" or "Meshuggah" are more progressive than many of the bands in this thread.

So?

It's like "alternative" or "rock and roll"...some may have very rigid definitions, but overall they encompass a wide array of stylistic influences.

So what if it doesn't follow the Webster's definition of "progressive". Meshuggah isn't progressive...they've pretty much stayed the same over the years...they're just complex.

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Orion Crystal Ice
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: the prog argument. I always saw it as a pretty simple issue. There isn't really an official term per se for bands who are in the Rush or Dream Theater mold these days, but it has become very much its own thing. However, it isn't progressive, i.e. treads little if any new ground. Which is fine, good music is good music. But I like to call that stuff 'prog', and then things such as WatchTower, Atheist, Cynic, Believer, maudlin of the Well, Ephel Duath, etc...those things, I would call progressive, authentically. So the shorthand version applies to the music too. I think that makes sense and is pretty simple. Yes, no? It seems obvious.
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chewie
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:08 pm

Shawn Of Fire wrote:
Dark Horseman wrote:
I was thinking, no way they can sound like Pinnick but there were times it was almost exact. Good find.

I swear, I am sitting at my computer listening to this and I keep going "O my god!! O my god!!" I am LOVING this!!!

This will be on my year-end 2012 list for sure...

The dude singing is playing all the guitars too...

I'm quite liking this........... gonna have to pick this up.
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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:54 pm

Shawn Of Fire wrote:
Meshuggah isn't progressive...they've pretty much stayed the same over the years...they're just complex.
They're also absurdly repetitive. Slipknot is more progressive than Meshuggah.

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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:59 pm

Shawn Of Fire wrote:
Woah! Just found these guys! After a quick listen, it's like prime dUg Pinnick singing for a heavier Dream Theater...

http://thegreatgamble.bandcamp.com/

Wow! This is great. Local to me, too. And the band?



Unexpected.

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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:13 pm

Regarding Meshuggah, I don't really listen to them much and I only own one album (Destroy Erase Improve). However, what I'm basing my progressive judgement on is two things. One is the rhythmic drive the band has, complex mixed-meters, poly-rhythms and a constantly changing pulse throughout each song. The riffs can be quite repetitive, that's why the rhythm section is so important, that's what creates the variety and keeps the songs interesting. I find the balance between the simplicity and the complex to be quite intriguing.

The other thing I enjoy about Meshuggah is the approach to guitar solos and melodic lines. The guitarist doesn't sound like someone that has only listened to metal his entire career. He has an understanding of fusion and jazz styles and incorporates those influences in interesting ways. With hardcore vocals and jackhammer riffs as the foundation, the lead guitar adds a coloration that I think works beautifully and elevates the material in a way that gives them their own sound. It's actually quite a subtle approach over what is essentially very intense music, that contrast is what I enjoy.

A fluid approach to rhythm and the ability to seamlessly incorporate musical elements from diverse sources are two things that I think are required in progressive music. If I listen to a band and think "these guys sound like they could definitely excel in different genres of music" that gets my interest peaked more than a band who sounds like they would cease to function without power chords.

Now, I know everyone has their own ideas of what prog sounds like and that's also going to vary widely depending on what bands you listen to. My tastes will be quite different from someone whose first progressive album was Operation Mindcrime. I've been listening to progressive rock since my pre-teen years, so I'm coming in from a very different angle.

If you enjoy it and it sounds progressive "to you", that's really all that matters in the end.

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jettafiend
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:46 pm

S.D. wrote:
A fluid approach to rhythm and the ability to seamlessly incorporate musical elements from diverse sources are two things that I think are required in progressive music. If I listen to a band and think "these guys sound like they could definitely excel in different genres of music" that gets my interest peaked more than a band who sounds like they would cease to function without power chords.



Exactly! - I was trying to put that into words but not having much success.
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Orion Crystal Ice
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:07 pm

I would probably word it a little differently though, because as is, it's easy to get the impression that a band that just throws any few genres together could be progressive/forward thinking.

I guess I'll make a Meshuggah comment although this has nothing to do with a discussion on their progressiveness but I just gotta throw it out there... I know this might be ridiculous, but I have this major pet peeve on how they hardly ever wrap the song up......99% of material I have heard from the band ends on a fade out....... Totally destroys the feel and atmosphere for me.....
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jettafiend
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:41 pm

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:
I would probably word it a little differently though, because as is, it's easy to get the impression that a band that just throws any few genres together could be progressive/forward thinking.

I guess I'll make a Meshuggah comment although this has nothing to do with a discussion on their progressiveness but I just gotta throw it out there... I know this might be ridiculous, but I have this major pet peeve on how they hardly ever wrap the song up......99% of material I have heard from the band ends on a fade out....... Totally destroys the feel and atmosphere for me.....

I can't speak for Meshuggah, as I am not very familiar with them at all. To me prog music specifically is a musical journey, beginning-middle-end.
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:10 pm

Quote :

Dark Horseman wrote:
I was thinking, no way they can sound like Pinnick but there were times it was almost exact. Good find.


I swear, I am sitting at my computer listening to this and I keep going "O my god!! O my god!!" I am LOVING this!!!

This will be on my year-end 2012 list for sure...

The dude singing is playing all the guitars too...

Always impresses me when dudes can pull this off. Or drumming and singing at the same time. I'm as musical as a drowning duck.
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exact33
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:18 pm

a band I have a lot of interested in getting their cd:

Bad Salad - Uncivilized



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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:55 pm

I just ordered the Bad Salad album last week. Should be waiting for me when I get home from vacation. =)

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exact33
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:45 pm

Distorted Harmony. I think they are a harder edged Haken.





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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:04 am

exact33 wrote:
Distorted Harmony. I think they are a harder edged Haken.




Really dig this, man. From Israel, too. Not the hotbed of prog-metal. Nice! And $0.99 is a pretty sweet deal for a download, but I just shot them an e-mail to pick up a CD copy.

Quality find.

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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:49 am

Oh, and Shawn's recommendations—Tetrafusion, Shattered Skies, and Dead Station—are damn good, too.

Tetrafusion and Shattered Skies are probably better suited for those who like the heavier, more metal prog stuff. Dead Station reminds me of a cross between Dredg and 30 Second to Mars, particularly their debut. Progressive alt-rock, basically.

And seriously, many of you would love the first 30 Seconds to Mars album. It's brilliant. This was before they began catering to radio and mopey lovesick teen girls who've never been in love.


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Orion Crystal Ice
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:00 am

I'll check that Israeli band out, but I warn you, I hate Haken, so..... lol!
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Orion Crystal Ice
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:10 am

Check out Ice Age, a really sadly forgotten band from the old Magna Carta lineup. I do remember them getting a good amount of attention when their two records were out, but then it's like the scene is all about..what have you done for me lately.

Ice Age was a mixture of bouncy neo-prog kind of stuff and the very best parts of that 'Dream Theater sound'...very very good songwriting happening.




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Shawn Of Fire
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:38 pm

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:
Check out Ice Age, a really sadly forgotten band from the old Magna Carta lineup. I do remember them getting a good amount of attention when their two records were out, but then it's like the scene is all about..what have you done for me lately.

Ice Age was a mixture of bouncy neo-prog kind of stuff and the very best parts of that 'Dream Theater sound'...very very good songwriting happening.

I had, and loved, both of those records when they were new...really good band.

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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:15 pm

Yep. Ice Age is excellent.

The female thrash version of Ice Age is pretty good too. =)

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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:28 pm

Just snagged that Distorted Harmony from Lasercd.com, along with Forever In Time, by Praying Mantis, for $2. Lots of good albums there for $2 right now.

Looks like the new Beardfish, Kaipa, and Stealing Axiom come out tomorrow, too. Tuesday for us, I guess.

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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:34 pm

Eyesore wrote:
Just snagged that Distorted Harmony from Lasercd.com, along with Forever In Time, by Praying Mantis, for $2. Lots of good albums there for $2 right now.

Looks like the new Beardfish, Kaipa, and Stealing Axiom come out tomorrow, too. Tuesday for us, I guess.

i just ordered both too. thanks for the info.

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Orion Crystal Ice
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:43 pm

Eyesore wrote:
Just snagged that Distorted Harmony from Lasercd.com, along with Forever In Time, by Praying Mantis, for $2. Lots of good albums there for $2 right now.

Looks like the new Beardfish, Kaipa, and Stealing Axiom come out tomorrow, too. Tuesday for us, I guess.

I was just playing 'Forever in Time' today in the car. Not prog at all (just so others don't get confused), but for the 'melodic metal' fan, heaven. $2??? Not at all what I paid for my import........ angry I am gonna go over there and look around right now..
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chewie
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:53 pm

Shawn Of Fire wrote:
Orion Crystal Ice wrote:
Check out Ice Age, a really sadly forgotten band from the old Magna Carta lineup. I do remember them getting a good amount of attention when their two records were out, but then it's like the scene is all about..what have you done for me lately.

Ice Age was a mixture of bouncy neo-prog kind of stuff and the very best parts of that 'Dream Theater sound'...very very good songwriting happening.

I had, and loved, both of those records when they were new...really good band.

Those are two excellent prog metal albums!!!! Bought both when they came out when I was still waaaaay into the Magna Carta Label.

It's is like the "Dream Theater sound" but with Dennis DeYoung on vocals!
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Temple of Blood
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PostSubject: Re: Prog-Rock/Metal   Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:46 pm

Eyesore wrote:
The female thrash version of Ice Age is pretty good too. =)

Yeah!
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