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Wrecked Neck
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:27 pm

Never cared for anything they did once they released gutter ballet. I loved the early albums, Sirens is one of the greatest metal albums ever imo, but they got way to soft later on and I lost all interest. I did like some songs off gutter and streets, but not enough to make up for the duds. Hall of the mountain king was the last great Savatage album released.
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:59 am

I don't think Doctor Butcher was ever meant to be more than a side project.

Jon probably just felt like being the lead singer for Savatage was too much to handle, and he needed to downshift. Those early years were rough, he had his substance abuse issues, weight gain and maybe felt the band would be better off with a new lead singer, while Jon remained there as more of a background figure.
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candlemass
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:32 am

Wrecked Neck wrote:
Never cared for anything they did once they released gutter ballet. I loved the early albums, Sirens is one of the greatest metal albums ever imo, but they got way to soft later on and I lost all interest. I did like some songs off gutter and streets, but not enough to make up for the duds. Hall of the mountain king was the last great Savatage album released.

I tend to agree, but wasn't "Poets and Madmen" pretty good?

I also rather like "Dead Winter Dead."
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007
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:31 am

I like the releases they had past Gutter Ballet to varying degrees (still haven't heard Poets & Madmen). Edge Of Thorns is awesome.
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candlemass
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:54 am

Can we all agree that "Fight for the Rock" was a dismal failure?!
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:34 pm

I doubt there's anything people here can fully agree on.
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Gilbert
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:34 pm

candlemass wrote:
Can we all agree that "Fight for the Rock" was a dismal failure?!

It may not be their best but it still beats load, reload and st anger by far.
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nevermore
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:41 pm

candlemass wrote:
Can we all agree that "Fight for the Rock" was a dismal failure?!

I can agree with you.
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candlemass
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:42 pm

St. Anger yes, but not the other two...
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007
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:32 pm

candlemass wrote:
Can we all agree that "Fight for the Rock" was a dismal failure?!


Absolutely.
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Wrecked Neck
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:19 pm

candlemass wrote:
Wrecked Neck wrote:
Never cared for anything they did once they released gutter ballet. I loved the early albums, Sirens is one of the greatest metal albums ever imo, but they got way to soft later on and I lost all interest. I did like some songs off gutter and streets, but not enough to make up for the duds. Hall of the mountain king was the last great Savatage album released.

I tend to agree, but wasn't "Poets and Madmen" pretty good?

I also rather like "Dead Winter Dead."
Yeah I forgot about poets, that one is decent. It does kind of run out of steam towards the end, but overall it's pretty good. Never much listened to dead winter dead, so I can't remember if I liked it or not lol
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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:53 pm

Lari wrote:
I don't think Doctor Butcher was ever meant to be more than a side project.

Jon probably just felt like being the lead singer for Savatage was too much to handle, and he needed to downshift. Those early years were rough, he had his substance abuse issues, weight gain and maybe felt the band would be better off with a new lead singer, while Jon remained there as more of a background figure.

Pretty sure that's close to it. Basically, as an addict, the touring was too much for him, too tempting.

Anyway, Poets And Madmen is a fantastic album. It contains my all-time favorite Sava tune: "Morphine Child."



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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:55 pm

candlemass wrote:
Can we all agree that "Fight for the Rock" was a dismal failure?!

No. Screw that. Great album! "Day After Day" is crap, though. Hate that song.

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Stender
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:56 pm

Eyesore wrote:
candlemass wrote:
Can we all agree that "Fight for the Rock" was a dismal failure?!

No. Screw that. Great album! "Day After Day" is crap, though. Hate that song.

Yeah, its not that bad of an album. People are just haters because it's terrible for being a Savatage album.
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DallasBlack
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:56 pm

Stender wrote:
Eyesore wrote:
candlemass wrote:
Can we all agree that "Fight for the Rock" was a dismal failure?!

No. Screw that. Great album! "Day After Day" is crap, though. Hate that song.

Yeah, its not that bad of an album. People are just haters because it's terrible for being a Savatage album.

Exactly! Hyde, Edge Of Midnight, and Lady In Disguise are fine Tracks. I actually like every song on the album to varying degrees.
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candlemass
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:18 am

It was just a huge let down for me, I had "Hall of the Mountain King" first...
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DallasBlack
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:31 am

candlemass wrote:
It was just a huge let down for me, I had "Hall of the Mountain King" first...

I had Edge Of Thorns, Streets, and Hall first but still managed to like it. However, I tolerate commercial music (80s and early 90s only) better than most around here so that's just me.
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Eyesore
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:37 am

It's a rock album, save for a few songs like "Hyde" (which should be considered an early Savatage classic), but it's still a really good album. "Day After Day" sucks, and I could live without "Out On the Streets," but aside from those two it's a really solid collection of tunes.

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Wurthless
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:00 am

Does anybody else really love Handful of Rain? Some of their best tracks are on that album. "Alone You Breathe," "Chance," "Castles Burning," to name a few.
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Wurthless
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:01 am

And I've honestly never listened to Fight for the Rock. Always just skipped over it for fear of it being as terrible as everyone said it is.
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DallasBlack
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:07 am

Wurthless wrote:
Does anybody else really love Handful of Rain? Some of their best tracks are on that album. "Alone You Breathe," "Chance," "Castles Burning," to name a few.

Love that album!
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Citanul
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:38 am

Eyesore wrote:
It's a rock album, save for a few songs like "Hyde" (which should be considered an early Savatage classic), but it's still a really good album. "Day After Day" sucks, and I could live without "Out On the Streets," but aside from those two it's a really solid collection of tunes.

I agree with this, and I think the reason it gets such a bad rap is because of what they'd done before.  If it had been their first album they would probably have been seen as a band who tried the more commercial approach before finding their voice with HOTMK.  Or if it had been their only album we'd probably be talking about them as a band who showed a lot of promise but were never able to carry on.

But it's because it was a such a shift from what they'd done before that it's not well-received.  It may be a bad Savatage album, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad album.
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Citanul
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:49 am

Wurthless wrote:
Does anybody else really love Handful of Rain? Some of their best tracks are on that album. "Alone You Breathe," "Chance," "Castles Burning," to name a few.

I like it. I'm actually in the minority here in that I prefer later Savatage (post-HOTMK). Not that that their early stuff is bad, but the more theatrical/progressive approach that they adopted is more to my liking.
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Wurthless
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:51 am

I don't dig Streets that much, but I'd actually have to agree. I find myself listening to later-period Savatage moreso than their early stuff. I love pretty much every other album I've heard from them, though, regardless of the era (I've only not heard Poets and Madmen, Fight for the Rock, & Dead Winter Dead).
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nevermore
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage   Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:10 pm

Wurthless wrote:
Does anybody else really love Handful of Rain? Some of their best tracks are on that album. "Alone You Breathe," "Chance," "Castles Burning," to name a few.

I think Handful Of Rain is a great album!!
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