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Citanul
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PostSubject: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:46 am

Getting this down to 32 songs took some work.  I went back and forth on a few and I really hope that there are no glaring omissions.  One thing to note is that both "Believe" and "I Believe" are here, so make sure you've got the right one in mind when making the relevant pick.

Alone You Breathe vs Doesn't Matter Anyway
When The Crowds Are Gone vs All That I Bleed
New York City Don't Mean Nothing vs Morphine Child
Hall Of The Mountain King vs Ghost In The Ruins
Sleep vs Gutter Ballet
I Believe [Sirens] vs Hyde
Warriors vs Tonight He Grins Again
Turns To Me vs 24 Hours Ago
Christmas Eve (12/24) vs The Dungeons Are Calling
The Wake Of Magellan vs Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns vs Commissar
Scream Murder vs Chance
Jesus Saves vs One Child
Sirens vs Of Rage And War
Dead Winter Dead vs Believe [Streets]
Legions vs Power Of The Night
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:16 am

Oh wow. I'll have to think about these.

Hounds, He Carves His Stone and Hourglass are among my favourites, but I guess they are not that popular? But I would have guessed at least Anymore would have warranted a nomination.
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007
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:01 am

Alone You Breathe
When The Crowds Are Gone
New York City Don't Mean Nothing
Hall Of The Mountain King
Gutter Ballet
I Believe
Warriors
24 Hours Ago
The Dungeons Are Calling
Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns
Chance
Jesus Saves
Sirens
Believe
Legions
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:59 am

I didn't mean to criticize. I'll happily take part in the voting. The best Savatage song is among this group. I like Devastation and Midas Knight, but neither is probably a realistic option to win. Laughing

So, good job narrowing it down.

I think I'll have to break out my collection in the evening, and give a couple of songs a fresh listen. Just to give songs like Comissar and Turns to Me a fighting chance. And how am I supposed to choose between Ghost in the Ruins and Hall of the Mountain King?! It's not nice to ask people to do something like that!
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Citanul
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:23 am

Lari wrote:
I like Devastation and Midas Knight, but neither is probably a realistic option to win. Laughing

That's true. A lot of people's favourites aren't going to be on the list (and I even left off a few of mine), but the most important thing was ensuring that all the big songs are there, which I think I've done.

Quote :
And how am I supposed to choose between Ghost in the Ruins and Hall of the Mountain King?! It's not nice to ask people to do something like that!

I know.  That's a tough one, and they're not going to get any easier. Smile
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MoonChild
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:50 am

Alone You Breathe vs Doesn't Matter Anyway
When The Crowds Are Gone vs All That I Bleed
New York City Don't Mean Nothing vs Morphine Child
Hall Of The Mountain King vs Ghost In The Ruins
Sleep vs Gutter Ballet
I Believe [Sirens] vs Hyde
Warriors vs Tonight He Grins Again
Turns To Me vs 24 Hours Ago
Christmas Eve (12/24) vs The Dungeons Are Calling
The Wake Of Magellan vs Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns vs Commissar
Scream Murder vs Chance
Jesus Saves vs One Child
Sirens vs Of Rage And War
Dead Winter Dead vs Believe [Streets]
Legions vs Power Of The Night
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:36 am

I just looked at this again, but nah - this one requires a listening session and a bottle of wine.
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:36 pm

I spent some time with these choices.

Alone You Breathe vs Doesn't Matter Anyway
Alone You Breathe is not their best ballad. It's really good, but I can't really vote against a good, gritty romping Jon Oliva song. I love the end run on Doesn't Matter Anyway, and basically the whole song is just Jon spitting words, only giving way to insane guitar solos. Just vintage Savatage. I did need to play it to make the decision. Initially I was leaning towards Alone You Breathe.

When The Crowds Are Gone vs All That I Bleed
Two ballads this time. Zakatage takes this round, but it's close. When the Crowds Are Gone is actually one of the best vocal performances by Jon. But still... there's magic in Zak singing "Lord, bring on the night, wrap it all around me. Let it hold me tight. Soak up all that I bleed."

New York City Don't Mean Nothing vs Morphine Child
Two perfect "broadway metal" (or rock opera) songs. Both songs have great buildups, atmosphere and great guitar work. In the end I'll go with NYC. It's the bold melodies, the Criss gallop, the melancholic ending. And I like that it's more compact. Morphine Child is a little bloated and progressive (I'm not a prog guy). I do like the trademark Savatage counterpoint vocals on Morphine Child, but by this time we've already heard those a few times. Either way, both these songs could be in my personal top 10.

Hall Of The Mountain King vs Ghost In The Ruins
If the last one was hard, this is just tormenting me. I needed a strong drink and to play them back to back. Hall of the Mountain King is just an insane metal work of art, a classic piece of US power metal and a defining moment for the band, but by the time I got to that guitar solo on Ghost in the Ruins, I knew I had to vote against it. Perfect guitar tone. Goosebumps all over the place from playing both tracks. Thank you, Criss Oliva! Either track could win my personal #1 favourite 'Tage track poll. I may have also been affected by the fact that I believe Mountain King will win this matchup. But that's too deep into psychology for me right now.

Sleep vs Gutter Ballet
After the last couple, this was rather easy. Feels like there are a lot of ballads in this battle. I'm assuming we'll have one less after this matchup  Razz

I Believe [Sirens] vs Hyde
I never heard Hyde. I'll withhold from voting. I have all the other albums on my pile of CDs.

Warriors vs Tonight He Grins Again
Maybe I'm getting exposed as a Streets fanboy, but while Warriors has a monster power riff, it's not much beyond that. Tonight He Grins Again is a memorable piece, with not just a catchy chorus, but those verses are great. I find myself randomly humming lyrics to it every now and then. I didn't really even need to play it, I know it so well. But I did anyway and damn, what a great delivery by Jon.

Turns To Me vs 24 Hours Ago
First off, "Magellan" is my favourite Savatage album. And possibly my favourite album by anyone ever. There are no weak tracks. And I like this song, always did, but I found it kind of just being a part of the greatness (and pomp) of the entire album. So I was a little unsure of how to approach this battle. Listening to it as a separate track, it still works great. But, in a stroke of bad luck it happens to be matched up against the opening track of the Mountain King album. 24 Hrs Ago. I don't think it's their best work, but Criss is all over this song, and it might as well be, because it just sounds like musical perfection to my ears.

I have to take a break.
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:50 pm

Christmas Eve (Sarajevo 12/24) vs The Dungeons Are Calling
I never really found the Christmas medley thingy that interesting. Sounds good though, and worked for the story, I guess. I actually liked the other orchestral instrumental (Mozart and Madness) better. It sounded more original. This one is just a metal version of well-known songs. But "Dungeons", that hits a target. Raw, yet moves with a purpose. It's pretty amazing actually how a song like this, with the production values it has, still sounds so good. It's stood the test of time, definitely.

The Wake Of Magellan vs Handful Of Rain
I feel pretty wishy-washy about this. I went back and forth a couple of times while re-listening. I thought it would be a landslide Magellan victory originally. And it's still a great track. Mind-blowing counterpoint vocals, great melodies, perfect arrangement and performance. But Handful of Rain is actually better than I remembered, and I remember it being good. Damn this band for writing so many great songs! It's still Magellan, sorry. And really, that album deserves to have at least one representative later on. If it's going to be the title track, then so be it.

Edge Of Thorns vs Commissar
The very first introduction of Zakatage to Savatage fans! Great song! Memorable verses, a real nice catchy mid-tempo melodic song. I always thought songs that can carry my interest during verses this much are the ones that really matter. And there's some tasty work by Criss. Commissar really doesn't have a chance. And I like Poets & Madmen. I like it so much I bought two different versions of the CD. Now here I am, voting all their songs off the battle.

Scream Murder vs Chance
Scream Murder is one of the best and most refined tracks on Sirens. But the Chance is a pioneering composition by the Oliva/O'Neill powerhouse mindcrew. They created a new type of Savatage song, and a new type of heavy metal. This was broadway meets Queen meets orchestra meets shred guitars. Such a shame Criss was not here, though we'll never know if Jon would've gone in this direction with Criss still aboard. It's not really possible to compare these two songs, they are so different. Scream Murder seems so trivial in comparison. It's just a song. It does not transcend life, the universe and everything. Thus, it loses.

Jesus Saves vs One Child
Well, now it's the Streets fanboy in me that has to argue with the side of me that loves the Zakatage counterpoint vocals. Yes, Zakatage is an awesome word I only recently learnt, so I've been repeating it like a parrot (or an idiot). What a great riff on Jesus Saves. Great guitar work, great tone, one of the most memorable Savatage verses. One Child is a lot simpler in melody, but a lot more complex in arrangement. Counterpoint vocals again. I can't decide. I think I've got to break off and continue another day.
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:01 pm

Well, I stop cold at Edge Of Thorns (in actuality the last album I really liked was Gutter Ballet, Streets and Edge each have a few songs I like) but I'll do my best....



Alone You Breathe
vs Doesn't Matter Anyway
When The Crowds Are Gone vs All That I Bleed
New York City Don't Mean Nothing vs Morphine Child  null vote.  
Hall Of The Mountain King vs Ghost In The Ruins
Sleep vs Gutter Ballet
I Believe [Sirens] vs Hyde
Warriors vs Tonight He Grins Again
Turns To Me vs 24 Hours Ago
Christmas Eve (12/24) vs The Dungeons Are Calling
The Wake Of Magellan vs Handful Of Rain  null vote
Edge Of Thorns vs Commissar
Scream Murder vs Chance
Jesus Saves vs One Child
Sirens vs Of Rage And War  (this one sucks, I love both songs)
Dead Winter Dead vs Believe [Streets]  null vote
Legions vs Power Of The Night
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:03 am

Alright, the last four left...

Jesus Saves vs One Child
A sober listen in the morning made me choose Jesus Saves. One Child is still a terrific song though.

Sirens vs Of Rage And War
Another nasty duel. Two classics, Sirens does represent something special on their catalog. Title track and a powerful opener to their debut album. But, as a song Of Rage and War has it beat. It has the right amount of heaviness and virtuosity, a terrific main riff and Jon delivering fiery lead vocals.

Side note - for listening, I've been mostly picking those remastered versions on the Still The Orchestra Plays compilation if available, and I can't believe neither of these tracks were featured! Doesn't matter as I have all their albums on separate, non-remastered, CDs as well. But still, how did they figure these two tracks are not among their best?!

Dead Winter Dead vs Believe [Streets]
Dead Winter Dead has a nice groove, but it's a little dull. Believe, on the other hand, is a strong candidate for winning this tournament. Not much to think about here.

Legions vs Power Of The Night
A very fitting pairing. This can't be random, can it?
"Legions of the Night, can I hear your battle cry?"
"Power of the night, raise the first of the metal child!"


Both excellent catchy empowering pure heavy metal songs that drip with energy. Many similarities. I'll go with Power of the Night after much pondering, because I just feel it has more urgency and the verses are better.
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the sentinel
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:55 pm

Citanul picking up the ball and running; great choice! Here we go:

Alone You Breathe
When The Crowds Are Gone
New York City Don't Mean Nothing
Hall Of The Mountain King
Gutter Ballet
I Believe [Sirens]
Warriors
24 Hours Ago
Christmas Eve (12/24)
Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns
Chance
Jesus Saves
Sirens
Dead Winter Dead
Power Of The Night

The toughest choice here, for me, was Legions vs. Power of the Night as those are two faves from N0.s 1 and 3 of my fave Savatage albums.
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the sentinel
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:57 pm

Also, mad respect to Lari for putting a lot of thought and effort into his choices. I enjoyed reading your explanations and reasoning.
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:31 pm

Alone You Breathe
When The Crowds Are Gone
Morphine Child
Hall Of The Mountain King
Gutter Ballet
I Believe [Sirens]
Warriors
24 Hours Ago
The Dungeons Are Calling
Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns
Chance
Jesus Saves
Sirens
Believe [Streets]
Legions

That was actually fairly easy. And fun.
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Citanul
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:33 am

I held off making my picks just in case I needed to deal with ties, but as it turns out there weren't any for this round.  So here are mine, followed by the results.

Alone You Breathe
When The Crowds Are Gone
New York City Don't Mean Nothing
Hall Of The Mountain King
Gutter Ballet
I Believe
Tonight He Grins Again
24 Hours Ago
The Dungeons Are Calling
Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns
Chance
One Child
Sirens
Believe
Legions


Alone You Breathe beat Doesn't Matter Anyway (5-2)
When The Crowds Are Gone beat All That I Bleed (5-2)
New York City Don't Mean Nothing beat Morphine Child (5-1)
Hall Of The Mountain King beat Ghost In The Ruins (6-1)
Gutter Ballet beat Sleep (7-0)
I Believe beat Hyde (6-0)
Warriors beat Tonight He Grins Again (4-3)
24 Hours Ago beat Turns To Me (7-0)
The Dungeons Are Calling beat Christmas Eve (12/24) (6-1)
Handful Of Rain beat The Wake Of Magellan (5-1)
Edge Of Thorns vs Commissar (7-0)
Chance beat Scream Murder (5-2)
Jesus Saves beat One Child (5-2)
Sirens beat Of Rage And War (6-1)
Believe beat Dead Winter Dead (5-1)
Legions beat Power Of The Night (5-2)


Last edited by Citanul on Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lari
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:26 am

I think Morphine Child got at least one vote.
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Citanul
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:37 am

Lari wrote:
I think Morphine Child got at least one vote.

Embarassed It did. Not sure how that happened, but thanks for picking it up.
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:21 am

I know it's too late to matter but I want to do this one for fun:

Alone You Breathe
All That I Bleed
New York City Don't Mean Nothing
Ghost In The Ruins
Gutter Ballet
Hyde
Tonight He Grins Again
24 Hours Ago
The Dungeons Are Calling
Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns
Chance
Jesus Saves
Of Rage And War
Believe [Streets]
Legions
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PostSubject: Re: Savatage song battle - Round One   Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:37 pm

Alone You Breathe
When The Crowds Are Gone
New York City Don't Mean Nothing
Hall Of The Mountain King
Gutter Ballet
I Believe
Warriors
24 Hours Ago
The Dungeons Are Calling
Handful Of Rain
Edge Of Thorns
Scream Murder
Jesus Saves
Sirens
Believe
Power Of The Night
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