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Vexer6
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PostSubject: White Tiger   Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:51 am

What does everyone think of Mark St. John's post KISS band? Shame these guys didn't last longer, Mark had some really bad luck getting such a rare disease that stopped his career before it ever really got started, I wonder how different KISS would be today if he hadn't been forced to leave.

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manny
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:58 am

I do not think he would have lasted too long with KISS anyway, he was a great guitarist who fit in with the shredders of that era, but KISS needed a more tradition guitarist like Bruce Kulick.
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nevermore
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:48 pm

manny wrote:
I do not think he would have lasted too long with KISS anyway, he was a great guitarist who fit in with the shredders of that era, but KISS needed a more tradition guitarist like Bruce Kulick.

I agree.

The White Tiger album isn't bad but it's far from great.
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manny
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:27 pm

White Tiger is an ok album I best I remember wanting mainly to hear what David Donato sounded like since he was to be the man to replace Ian Gillan in Black Sabbath.
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James B.
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:46 pm

I believe the Reiters Syndrome story was B/S as reason for getting kicked to the curb by G & P. I saw White Tiger play and there seemed to be no issues with Mark's playing.

I have the Mark St John Project and "Magic Bullet Theory".... no issues there surprised


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Vexer6
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:05 pm

James B. wrote:
I believe the Reiters Syndrome story was B/S as reason for getting kicked to the curb by G & P. I saw White Tiger play and there seemed to be no issues with Mark's playing.  

I have the Mark St John Project and "Magic Bullet Theory".... no issues there   surprised

That's because it was a very on and off sort of disease, it wasn't like it just kept getting worse and worse, so I don't believe the excuse was BS at all, if watch the few KISS shows where Mark actually did play, you'll notice that his guitar playing is a bit too fast and erratic, so he definitely did have issues at that point, though they may have mostly healed by the time he started his own band.

Also considering that every single KISS autobiography says the same thing about him, I highly doubt they were ALL lying, that's a bit too farfetched of a conspiracy theory for me to buy into.
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James B.
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Vexer6 wrote:
watch the few KISS shows where Mark actually did play, you'll notice that his guitar playing is a bit too fast and erratic, so he definitely did have issues at that point, though they may have mostly healed by the time he started his own band.  

The disease in question would actually have the opposite effect on his playing.

Vexer6 wrote:
Also considering that every single KISS autobiography says the same thing about him, I highly doubt they were ALL lying, that's a bit too farfetched of a conspiracy theory for me to buy into.  

Consider the source, KISS will lie about anything and everything.


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Vexer6
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:04 am

Sorry, no tinfoil hat for me, thank you very much lol!
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:00 am

Here's some of the article - that says Mark St. John was killed in jail.


Jared Petrovich, a former shot-caller at the jail and one of nine inmates charged with murdering Chamberlain (see "'I Lit the Fire,'" April 3), told the Weekly he personally helped to arrange for Norton to be assaulted and that Deputy Kevin Taylor, the same guard Petrovich alleges authorized the attack against Chamberlain, approved the beating. In a recent interview with the Weekly, the onetime shot-caller for the "Woods" (the white inmates at Theo Lacy) stated that Taylor knew in advance that numerous inmates, including Norton, would be beaten up and not only did nothing to stop the assaults, but also gave sack lunches to him and other inmates in return for carrying them out.

"We went up to Kevin Taylor and said, 'We're going to beat this guy [Norton] up,'" Petrovich recalls. "[Taylor] said okay and gave us sack lunches, two each for the four us," referring to himself, another Woods shot-caller and pair of Latino inmates who needed to be advised of an upcoming beating so they didn't "trip out."

According to Petrovich, Norton was being punished for stealing property from another inmate in a different part of the jail. "He got caught stealing something," he says. "I guess he did that somewhere else in the jail, but we found out about it somehow. . . . The Kiss guy got beat up pretty bad."
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007
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:46 am

I haven't heard that White Tiger album in a long time but I always liked it.
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Fat Freddy
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:57 am

Glower wrote:
Here's some of the article - that says Mark St. John was killed in jail.


Jared Petrovich, a former shot-caller at the jail and one of nine inmates charged with murdering Chamberlain (see "'I Lit the Fire,'" April 3), told the Weekly he personally helped to arrange for Norton to be assaulted and that Deputy Kevin Taylor, the same guard Petrovich alleges authorized the attack against Chamberlain, approved the beating. In a recent interview with the Weekly, the onetime shot-caller for the "Woods" (the white inmates at Theo Lacy) stated that Taylor knew in advance that numerous inmates, including Norton, would be beaten up and not only did nothing to stop the assaults, but also gave sack lunches to him and other inmates in return for carrying them out.

"We went up to Kevin Taylor and said, 'We're going to beat this guy [Norton] up,'" Petrovich recalls. "[Taylor] said okay and gave us sack lunches, two each for the four us," referring to himself, another Woods shot-caller and pair of Latino inmates who needed to be advised of an upcoming beating so they didn't "trip out."

According to Petrovich, Norton was being punished for stealing property from another inmate in a different part of the jail. "He got caught stealing something," he says. "I guess he did that somewhere else in the jail, but we found out about it somehow. . . . The Kiss guy got beat up pretty bad."

Where does that say he died? All it sez is he got beat up.

Wiki quotes the Orange County (Cali) Coroner's office as saying the cause of death was an overdose of methamphetamine.

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James B.
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:06 pm

Vexer6 wrote:
Sorry, no tinfoil hat for me, thank you very much lol!

Everything is not always a conspiracy, it is just my informed opinion.

I have attended both trade events/expos and KISS conventions and overheard Mark answering questions regarding the situation. He had interesting things to say about it. Even Bruce Kulick won't confirm the KISS version of events in interviews and he was the man who replaced him.

Two people (Mark & Bruce) who were actually there and personally involved versus two individuals (Gene & Paul) with no qualms to react on emotion towards those they have conflict with....hmmm "no brainer there".


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brokentulsa
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:42 pm

Love this album...I think the songwriting and the sound and guitar work are very very good..way better than alot of kiss albums...(listening to it right now headbanger  )
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Glower
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:20 pm

Peter Criss...in his book...said Mark St. John.....
had a weakness for German kiddie porn...the real sick stuff...
I have to admit, I was surprised to have read that.

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Vexer6
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:50 am

Glower wrote:
Peter Criss...in his book...said Mark St. John.....
had a weakness for German kiddie porn...the real sick stuff...
I have to admit, I was surprised to have read that.

Not so sure I believe that, I take some of what Peter says with a grain of salt.
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:19 am

Glower wrote:
Peter Criss...in his book...said Mark St. John.....
had a weakness for German kiddie porn...the real sick stuff...
I have to admit, I was surprised to have read that.

Without corroboration from other sources, I will never believe something just because Peter Criss said it. I don't know the truth here, and Mark had his issues with drugs, but so did Peter. The early 90s were not the best of times for Peter, and even in the best of times, calling him an exaggerator is being kind. I thought coming out with this crap in his book when Mark was dead, and unable to defend himself, was beyond low, and I have never heard anyone but Peter say anything remotely like this about Mark. This needs to be taken with more than a grain of salt.

Regarding the album, I always enjoyed it. I've never understood the flack it gets. It's not the greatest thing to ever be released, but I've always viewed it as a solid, well-performed, consistent piece of mid-80s hard rock/metal.
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:34 am

I listened to it a few years back on the tube and enjoyed it for what it was and is- a pretty average 80's glam album. I have had no luck though finding it cheaply on disc so I am going to try for an LP.
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:34 am

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manny
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PostSubject: Re: White Tiger   Sat Jul 30, 2016 7:40 am

pdf0427 wrote:
Glower wrote:
Peter Criss...in his book...said Mark St. John.....
had a weakness for German kiddie porn...the real sick stuff...
I have to admit, I was surprised to have read that.

Without corroboration from other sources, I will never believe something just because Peter Criss said it.  I don't know the truth here, and Mark had his issues with drugs, but so did Peter.  The early 90s were not the best of times for Peter, and even in the best of times, calling him an exaggerator is being kind.  I thought coming out with this crap in his book when Mark was dead, and unable to defend himself, was beyond low, and I have never heard anyone but Peter say anything remotely like this about Mark.   This needs to be taken with more than a grain of salt.

Regarding the album, I always enjoyed it.  I've never understood the flack it gets.  It's not the greatest thing to ever be released, but I've always viewed it as a solid, well-performed, consistent piece of mid-80s hard rock/metal.  


I agree, I am sure this is bulls**t. Gene and Paul not exactly knowing for holding back would have said something about it and probably would have had Bruce Kulick or Tommy Thayer re-record his parts for any reissues, simply to avoid being associated with such sickness. Also Peter Criss was not close to Paul, Gene and his involvement with the management did not go beyond getting royalty checks. So if this really was going on, how would he know and if he was so disgusted why did he not run to the cops like any decent human being would have done? I do not believe him or much of anything else who wrote about his book.
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